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Monday, 26 May 2008

Kieffe & Sons Ford Displays new Ford Concept Car

18 comments:

J W Horne said...

Your concept car is funny and I suppose you think you are too. By the way I am the guy that wrote and produced the radio spot. I think it is amazing how people such as you and others find the truth offensive. Perhaps it is just your way of calling attention to yourself so that you can justify your life. I know that you will probably find this offensive too, but for your information, Kieffe and Sons ford have had overwhelming support from Americans all over the country.. the positive responses run about 86 percent.. isn't that amazing?

Anonymous said...

Hey, Horne, here's a little diddy you apparently have forgotten, or never learned:

First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

-Pastor Martin Niemöller

Scott (Shawnee KS) said...

Truth? In order for something to be true, shouldn't it be based in fact? Dictionary.com's first definition of True: "being in accordance with the actual state or conditions; conforming to reality or fact; not false". Since when has the bible, the "spoken word," the Almighty, etc, ever been proven to be true? All evidence thus far has shown Christianity (and most religions) to be based on a collection of fables written by a few dozen men, spanning a few centuries, several millenia ago, then cherry picked by a few dozen more men centuries later and cobbled together to form a book, only to be translated and re-translated from language to language altering the original meaning of the fables at least slightly, if not grotesquely. Where is the truth? I see nothing but fables and myths handed down through generations, certainly nothing to prove there is a god(s) of any kind floating around Universe. Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. They have just as much truth as religion and god(s).

Using the same argument religions use: An invisible, fire breathing dragon lives in my garage. It's the truth! Prove me wrong.

'religion is nothing more than mythology poeple still believe in.'

deborahenger said...

I love it! You are correct, the Truth is no longer welcome or acceptable. I applaud your efforts. We're not going to take it anymore. The truth is alive and well. Keep those spots running!

woozy said...

".. the positive responses run about 86 percent.. isn't that amazing?"

Not really seeing as you claim 86% believe in God and 86% are Christians (meaning Jews and Muslims either do not exist in this country or are all either athiest or christian) and now you claim your commercial has according to you 86& approval rating. Seems to me you just like the number 86. Seems like a good one to spout out when you make up statistics. What percentage of the earth's surface is water? 86%. What portion of american families make over $20,000 per year? 86%. Under $100,000 per year? 86%. Percentage of insects with wings? 86%. Americans who believe in God? 86%. Are Christians? 86% Graduated high school? 86% Didn't graduate high school? 86% Support the war in Iraq? 86% Oppose the war in Iraq? 86%. Those all sound pretty good, don't they? Anyone can make stuff up and make it sound good.

deborahenger said...

You are correct, Scott, religion has lots of flaws. But it's not about religion, for religion is man-made. It's about developing and maintaining a personal relationship with a living, breathing, GOD, who love's you, whether or not you believe in Him.

Scott (Shawnee KS) said...

Deborahenger... I had relationships of sorts with make believe friends when I was 6 years old, but I gave those up when I grew up and realized: They don't exist. But, then again I do have that dragon living in my garage. He exists, doesnt he? Probably has as good a chance of existing as any god.

deborahenger said...

The original piece from Paul Harvey stated 86% of ALL people believe in GOD. That means what it says. 86% of ALL people believe in GOD, so no, beep, your wrong, ALL people means ALL people, no one cares what color or religion. That leave 14% of people who do not believe in GOD. Very simple

deborahenger said...

HOORAY, HOORAY, HOORAY for Paul Harvey. I myself have been grumbling and wondering how a handful of people have been able to take our right to pray in public places away from us. So, agreeing with Paul, I GLADLY will forward this email AGAIN, AGAIN AND AGAIN.


Folks, this is the Month that we RE-TAKE AMERICA
*********

Get Ready



*********


Keep this going around the globe ... read it and forward every time you receive it. We can't give up on this issue.

Paul Harvey and Prayer


Paul Harvey says:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin , but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution.

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire Book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

Yes, and this is the United States of America , a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting?

If I went t o a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.
< /FONT>
If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China , I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.

But what about the atheists? Is another argument.

What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.

God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well, just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority doesn't care what they want. It is time that the majority rules! It's time we tell them, You don't have to pray; you don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take OUR rights away. We are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!

God bless us one and all ... especially those who denounce Him , God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all. God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.

gnoolster said...

deb -

do you know that you CAN pray in public spaces? You can pray in public school if you want. You can pray anywhere. There can be organized prayer before football games or have God bless America at baseball games because the NFL and MLB are PRIVATE organizations, which can make their own rules. So PRIVATE organizations can have prayers, and YOU as an INDIVIDUAL can pray anywhere in public you want.

But the school cant MAKE you pray. Government officials CANNOT be saying a prayer as part of their proceedings, because that would imply a preference to a religion, which the 1st amendment protects against.

You are Paul Harvey are obviously clueless.

"Yes, and this is the United States of America , a country founded on Christian principles."

Well, I would ask you Deb and Paul to read the CONSTITUTION, which is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, and is actually a totally SECULAR document. IF this is a Christian country, why wouldn't the founders have included Christianity in the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

This is the point. ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION DEB? Put the Bible down and PAY ATTENTION! Atheists do not want to stop you from praying in public. Atheists tend to be free thinkers and believe in liberty, freedom of speech, the marketplace of ideas, etc. What atheists are AGAINST is GOVERNMENT-SANCTIONED prayer/religion/etc.

SO YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Again - YOU CAN PRAY IN PUBLIC WHEREVER, WHENEVER. If you are on PRIVATE property, people have the right to kick you out, just like a Church could kick ME out for going around its property and telling people there is no God. You can pray anywhere but the government cannot sanction or advocate prayer. Get your head out of the sand. Get a clue.

woozy said...

Debra Henger says:

"The original piece from Paul Harvey stated 86% of ALL people believe in GOD." And I'd like to thank her for citing the origin of J W Horne's statistic.

However, I wish to point out J W Horne still mangled the statistic and stated "86% are christians and believe in God". This is clearly impossible as there are clearly several millions of jews, muslims, and other non-Christians in America who believe in God so the entire 86% can not be all Christians.

Debra Hengar then says:

"how a handful of people have been able to take our right to pray in public places away from us"

Nobody is or can take away your right to pray privately to yourself and/or your willing companions. However you do not have the right and never have had the right to initiate a large public prayer for a public event involving unwilling participants. This is as it should be. I'd like to draw Debora Hengor to Mathew Chapter 6 verse 6:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Anyhow as to the piece by Paul Harvey:

Yes, and this is the United States of America , a country founded on Christian principles.

This is patently false. When asked why The Constitution made no reference of God Alexander Hamilton is reported to have replied that the United States was not in need of "foreign aid". Humerous that, no? God is foreign to the united states?

Thomas Jefferson once wrote: "The hocus-pocus phantasy of a God, like another Cerberus, ..., had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs."
Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson s Works, Vol. IV, 360,

Refering to God a a "hocus-pocus phantasy" hardly sounds like the words of the founder of a Christian Nation.

John Adams: "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"

and good old irrascable Thomas Paine says bluntly: "The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense."

And if we need a legal act or official statement, the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli unequivically states "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation". The treaty was endorsed and signed by John Adams and ratified by the Senate unanimously. There was no dissent or votes against!

Paul Harvey:

If I went t o a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.
< /FONT>
If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China , I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.


Then if you go to a secular country such as the United States, you should expect to hear no prayer. And you shouldn't be offended. It shouldn't bother you one bit.

Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing.

Yes, and it tells you to do so in your closet, with your door shut, and in secret. What's more:

Mathew: 6-5:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.

Admittedly football stadiums are ommitted from the verse but considering the date that isn't suprising.

So let's score:

Supporting our side: Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, The Holy Bible, The Constitution of the United States, and The Treaty on Tripoli.
Supporting your side: A car salesman and a guy named Paul Harvey.

woozy said...

Looks like we had our effect:

Car dealer regrets ads urging non-Christians to 'sit down and shut up'

An interesting note within here is this: "Kieffe and Sons has contracted the same Oklahoma ad producer for 12 to 15 years, Kieffe said. Most of the ads are humorous but a minority are patriotic, “flag-waving” messages that don’t necessarily push car sales, he said.

The thing is, the 'sit down and shut up' is most decidedly not patriotic and flag-waving. Nothing on earth could be less patriotic than for some-one to say to a minority religious belief "there's more of us so just sit down and shut up; we'll always be the majority so I don't give a flip what you think".

This idea that those with good old fashioned religious values are some-how more patriotic than we vocal objectors becomes particularly galling when we go back and actually read what our country was founded upon. The seperation of Church and state and the freedom to chose one's own religion and never have to give into the values of a magority was foremost in our founders mind.

And those who'd demand that we all mouth their prayers in our schools and should sit back and accept public application of their religion in all public occurances whether relevent or not have the unimitigated gall to call us unpatriotic?

It's disgusting is what it is!

'sit down and shut up' may be "flag-waving" (in the worst sense of the concept) in that it is hiding behind a colorful distraction and ignoring all implication and thought. But patriotic? Never!

Anonymous said...

well well well woozy.. I still think it is funny that you will find time for this subject. You must be quite lonely. What will be your subject once this one dies out? As for me, this is the last bit of time that I am going to spend on this site and any others that pertain to this matter. I really don't mind being above ground and on the radar screen. TA TA.

Kate P said...

Hey Horne,

Question for you. Do you think 86% of Americans would go to Heaven. I suspect not. You see, this statistic works for you when you want to use it this way but what you fail to consider is that some of those people are Jews and Muslims and probably even GAYS. But I'm pretty sure you think they're going to hell.

I believe in God. But I would never support a business that so disrespectfully spoke to 1% of the population, let alone "14%."

Also, if I were you, I wouldn't claim that I wrote this. Actually Andy Rooney wrote (or "borrowed" from someone else) most of it and aired it on 60 Minutes in his "Did You Know" segment.

Anonymous said...

As for me, this is the last bit of time that I am going to spend on this site and any others that pertain to this matter.

I highly suspect you are lying to both those here, and yourself.

but if not, then good, as your responses contain nothing of substance.

woozy said...

"well well well woozy.. I still think it is funny that you will find time for this subject."

I find bad logic and faulty arguments excedingly compelling and will persue them viciously. When bad logic and faulty arguments are used to support assinine, bigoted, and totalitarian homilies then I find them that much more compelling.


"You must be quite lonely."

I am but I'm in good company.

"What will be your subject once this one dies out?"

Oh, I don't know. I'm sure someone somewhere's going to deny the halocaust, defend the Bell Curve, or say ".99999..... approaches but never reaches 1 so it's always a little less than 1" soon.

"As for me, this is the last bit of time that I am going to spend on this site and any others that pertain to this matter. I really don't mind being above ground and on the radar screen. TA TA."

Uh, as you're anonymous that statement doesn't really pack much weight.

Anna Lemma said...

Hey J W Horne, it looks like you might not have any more buisness from Kieffe & Sons. It seems that they are claiming that they aired the ad without reviewing it and they don't approve of the ad. Or else that is what they are claiming.

woozy said...

I looks like Mr. Horne couldn't take the heat and has removed his blog with it's 73+ postings (with a record all negative). Seems we managed a good old fashion ass-reaming. I didn't really wish him harm; just wanted him to see the error of his ways. I just can't stand bad logic and flimsy arguments and wanted to see if he really believed anyone can believe what they want but can't force their believes on others, can he really not see that prayers in school and "god" on our money is exactly that?